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At the end of this transcript are links to videos, a documentary, writings and books related to the amazing life and influence of Thomas Sankara.

Another great show with Peter Koenig. This is not the first time, so catch all our work here,

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As a member of China Writers’ Group, Peter posts his work on Seek Truth From Facts,

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He writes regularly for Global Research,

https://www.globalresearch.ca/authors?query=peter+koenig&x=0&y=0

Transcript

Jeff J. Brown: This is Jeff Brown, Radio Sinoland, and I’ve got one of my great friends, Peter Koenig, on the line tonight. How are you doing, Peter?

Peter Koenig: I’m fine, thanks, Jeff, for having me again. It’s great to talk to you all the time.

Jeff: Absolutely. We stay in regular touch by email. And Peter is a proud member of the China Writers Group. He’s a prolific essayist and writer. He is usually found on Global Research. I’ll have all the links for you. He’s been on the show many times, and I’m so happy to have him back. The reason I asked Peter to come on the show today is because I sent a thing out about the new leader of Burkina Faso, Ibrahim Traoré.

And I said, you know, he’s looking more and more like Thomas Sankara. And of course, Peter will explain to you who Thomas Sankara is. I mean, he’s much, much more important than you all. Most of you Westerners even realize, and in fact, I assume most of you don’t even know who he is. But anyway, Peter emailed back saying, “Oh, yeah, Thomas Sankara. It was really an honor to meet him. I was in Burkina Faso.” And I’m going, you met Thomas Sankara?

So I said, we gotta get you on the show to tell us about meeting him and how important he is, and what he means to Africa, and what he means to Africa today. I mean, the inspiration he is offering to African people and African leaders even today. So go ahead and just take it away, Peter. I’m really excited to hear this.

Peter: Okay, well, a little bit of background. Of course, I worked for over 30 years for the World Bank. And within this time, maybe about 8 years for Africa, mostly West Africa. And then on and off. And so, one of my countries was Burkina Faso. I also must say that I worked basically in water, everything water, water supply, water management, sanitation. All that has to do with irrigation, everything that has to do with water.

And of course, a Sahelian country like Burkina Faso, you know, they’re all short of water, and especially in rural areas, also in urban areas. And especially at that time, that was in the 80s, they really needed water projects. So I was working on a water project in the rural water supply and sanitation project in Burkina Faso. Was there quite a lot on the mission? I must say, Burkina Faso was one of my preferred countries, even before I knew about Thomas Sankara.

I really like the country because the people are so friendly and cooperative and it has a special ambience, this Burkina Faso. And I think still today, it has a special ambience, that’s why they may produce somebody like Thomas Sankara, today, Ibrahim Traore, who is also a very special person. So, anyway, this is a short background. At one point, when I was, I think it was in ’87, in Burkina Faso. I was the mission leader for a rural water supply and sanitation project.

I was directed to contact the presidency at that time. It was Thomas Sankara. And of course, I did, and I knew about him, and he asked me whether I could come to his office. He wanted to talk about water and the project, and so on. So, for me, it was an honor. It was really a great honor to go and meet with Thomas Sankara, who was, for me, an idol, you know, the way he dealt with not only his country, but his reputation went way beyond, already then, way beyond the Burkina Faso.

Especially in the former French-African colonies, which are about 8 in West Africa and 6 in Central Africa. So, okay, of course, I was very, very pleased, went to see him and I must say, you know, the moment I met him, that I realized that this gentleman is irradiating a special… what do you call it… special vibes. You know, he was very relaxed about it. He was not at all the usual president, which makes sure that you understand how strong he is.

No, he started a normal conversation. And he wanted to know first what this project was all about. We were trying to build it up. And I guess he must have known a little bit. He must have looked into my CV or my past before he invited me, so he knew a little bit, I guess and my approach to stuff like that to these projects, and when I talked to him that the way we are approaching it, that this is not at all something which we impose, or we select the parts of the country that participate.

No, that this was something which we presented to the people, and then they could come and say, yes, we are interested, and then we would talk with them a little bit more and so on, until they could finally say yes or no, we want this project, or we would like to try it and so on. And, you know, it takes much longer than what the usual development assistance is. They come to a village or a town and say, “Well, we have this water supply project. This is what it is, and you have to pay so much for the water, and so on.”

No, that was not my approach, and he was very pleased with that. So we talked a little bit about that. And after a moment, I realized that his interest, but it was certainly his interest, was water, because it is something very important for people to survive. Not only drinking water and sanitation for health and the need for drinking water, but also because water is needed for agriculture. And so he was very much interested in how the water was divided between agriculture and drinking water. What has priority and when, and so on.

So it was a very interesting conversation that we had, and that, you know. Thomas Sankara is Thomas Sankara. He knew about everything, something, and he always had a social thought behind everything. This was very impressive, and it’s very rare to find people like that. You know, maybe if I can compare it, when I worked in China, it was a little bit like that too, that you talk with the people, with the regional management people, and they had a very similar open-minded approach to this to water sanitation, to the management of water, and how it is dealt with, and so on.

So, but back to Sankara, after a while, I realized that he was also very much interested in how I should call it, in finally getting rid of the franc CFA. The CFA franc was imposed by the French colonies, and it, would you believe, it lasts until today. And what it does, and I give it to you in a nutshell, because it’s maybe a little bit more complex, but in a nutshell, is that it was imposed upon the former colonies when they became independent, the CFA was renamed and became a currency, which they had to maintain.

It was probably part of the deal of becoming so-called independent, which they are not, they are not even today, because if a country doesn’t have a sovereign currency, then a country is enslaved by whoever owns the currency, and that’s France. Still today. What they have to do is 80% at the time, and I think it’s still about that, 70% or 80% of their reserves are being absorbed by, or have to be deposited in the Banc de France, which is the French Central Bank, and are managed by the French Central Bank.

You can imagine what that means. That means that these countries are totally dependent on France. They can export and import only what France allows to other countries. And particularly, and this was what really got me, unfortunately, in Washington, I had a director who thought the same way I do, who was a Frenchman, by the way.

You know, what they have to do, if they want some of their reserve money for investments at home, for road construction, railway construction, and this one concern I have particularly had at the time, they want to build and did build a railway system between Abhijan and Ouagadougou, which crosses two countries, and so both countries, but particularly Burkina Faso, required some reserve money from the French Central Bank, which they should have a right to.

And eventually, the French Central Bank decides whether or not they will receive the money, and if they do receive their own money, they have to pay a fee for it. You know, they call it a commission. It’s basically like an interest. And this is just absurd. This is absolutely crazy, and this is more than 65 years later, still the case. Some of the countries are trying very hard, like Niger, and also, again, now Burkina Faso to get out of this system, Mali, also, and a number of other countries are really catching on to this, but it’s not easy.

And we made a calculation, or I particularly made a calculation, if, from one day to the next, if, say, tomorrow, all the former French colonies would get rid of the CFA and would adopt their own currency, France would lose between 25% and 30% of their GDP. That’s how they are still being sucked up, these countries, and sucked out, and mistreated. So, and Sankara, of course, Thomas Sankara, he knew about that.

And he wanted to talk about what he could do. He wanted to not only help his own country, but he wanted to do something in the end for all of Africa, pretty much like Gaddafi wanted, but first for the French former colonies, and getting rid of the CFA. And then we talked about several options, you know, on how to proceed, and probably it would have been possible for him, because he had very good connections throughout Africa, but particularly throughout West Africa, and to some extent also Central Africa.

But then, and I guess he knew that he had a sense, he had more than a sense that something would happen to him. Of course, he didn’t mention that in our conversation, but I read afterwards, he was assassinated, and I think this was one of the reasons by his school body, by his closest friend and advisor, and the order was given by Mitterrand, by then, the French President.

Jeff: Oh, François Mitterrand, Former President of France.

Peter: President of France. And this happened, I’m not exactly sure, I think it was in October 87, just a few months, maybe 4 or 5 months after I had the opportunity to meet with him. And for sure, the key reason for this was his efforts to abandon the CFA and to introduce their own currency, and help other African countries to do the same thing. So, this already, at that time, was at a high cost for France, for the French economy.

And, you know, just to go back or forward to Gaddafi, he wanted to do the same thing for Africa by introducing the gold dinar and the currency, which would make all of Africa totally independent from the West, and each country would have its own currency. It’s not like the Euro, where the Euro is also a currency. But which is applicable for the whole European Union, or could be applicable? It’s now for 20 countries, I think of the 27, but these countries who are belonging to the Eurozone, they are not autonomous. They are not sovereign.

They don’t have financial sovereignty anymore, and that’s what people don’t realize. Gaddafi realized that, so for him it would be the currency which was introduced, and each country would still be autonomous in managing its own monetary policy. And something like that was also what I discussed with Thomas Sankara at the time, and he also felt that it would have to be so that the countries would not be interdependent through the currency, but would have their independence and would have to establish relationships among each other totally independently, not because of a link of the currency.

And this is an important factor. Also, of course, that would have hurt France even more, if you want to look at it that way. And it’s not hurting, actually, it is what France should have done from the very beginning. Make these countries, give these countries total independence and sovereignty, and that did not happen. So Thomas Sankara was really, he was a great man. They also called him the Che Guevara of Africa. And I think his legacy will go on, and I’m pretty sure it has inspired today’s Ibrahim Traore, who has some similar ideas.

And, of course, he knows that he is at risk, that you know, the French are the same thing as they were always. Sarkozy was responsible for largely responsible for the death, for the lynching, actually, of Qaddafi at that time, in 2011, I believe. And together with NATO, of course, he would not have the courage to do it himself, and he had the support of Hillary Clinton also. So, you know, the West is very much together in not leaving Africa on their own. This is something which I think is very important, from which I learn from the very beginning when I started.

I mean, maybe less than a year after I joined the World Bank in West Africa, actually, in a meeting in a department meeting, I said at some point that a young chap, as I was at the time, I said, I think it would be much better if we would leave Africa on its own, because they have a different culture. And they do not necessarily respond to what we try to impose. I was almost kicked out of the room. And later, I was told, you know, this is not something you’re presenting, and you’re telling, you have no experience, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Probably I didn’t know what I was talking about, but today it would be even stronger with exactly the same opinion, because now I do know what I’m talking about, and I think this is still the case. And of course, people like Thomas Sankara and Traore and Gaddafi, and probably others in Africa, they know that too. They have very good economists. And some of their economists have been, how shall I say? Suicide, unexpectedly, because they expressed too strong in their opinion too strongly about financial sovereignty.

Jeff: In one of my books, I have a list of the 21 or 22 African presidents that France assassinated. And they don’t even deny it. They don’t even deny, and these are the presidents. And you get into governors and ministers and it runs into the hundreds that they have assassinated. Of course, the British do the same thing in East Africa.

Peter: Yes.

Jeff: It’s not like France is uniquely evil. The British do the same thing, and I’m sure that the CFA was the reason that they killed him. His friend was Blaise Pascal, wasn’t it? Wasn’t that his name? Blaise Pascal?

Peter: Yes, yes, I forgot his last name, but Blaise, yes, I remember that, yes. And then he took over the presidency after that, and he was in the presidency, of course, a friend of France for maybe 15 years, or something like that, or quite a long time.

Jeff: A French puppet. What do you think, there is talk now that the three Sahelian Sahel, for those of you who don’t know, S-A-H-E-L is the desert, basically the Sahara Desert of Africa. And South of Algeria. And all those countries, Mauritania, Mali, Burkina Faso, Niger, Chad. That’s called the Sahel. And they’re all, unfortunately, under the dictatorship of the French CFA Franc, the Central African friend, the Western African Frank.

And I just wonder, you know, now, Ibrahim Traoré is talking about dumping the CFA. And of course, there have been something like 20 assassination attempts on him already, and he’s only been around for he’s only been in, you know, the leader for the last for 2 years. And like Thomas Sankara, he is very young. He’s, what, 32, something like that when he came to power?

Peter: Yeah, Sankara was in his early 30s, I believe, when he ascended to power through a military coup, which he did not organize, but they selected him as becoming the president. And I think that was in ’84, if I’m mistaken.

Jeff: Yeah, it was from 84 to 87. He lasted for 3 years before they took him out. And he built schools, he built hospitals, he built roads, he built, you know, water projects. He built housing. He was a typical socialist, you know, basically he was a communist socialist.

Peter: Yeah.

Jeff: And for that sin against the City of London and global capitalism, they killed him. What would it take to get rid of the CFA? I mean, it must be an awfully hard thing to do, to, like, just, like, start a currency on your own, and what did you all discuss as possible ways to break free from the dictatorship of the French CFA.

Peter: Well, there are various options. I would have to know a little bit more in detail, go and see these countries, but one of the measures would be, and I think, you know, in a very similar situation is French Polynesia. I just met last Friday. I met with a retired high officer from French Polynesia. He’s a Frenchman, but he feels more Polynesian than French, and he lives in Tahiti. And we talked about that, too.

There, in a similar situation, you know, we talked about actually, we talked about Traore and the currency, and I told them a little bit about my meeting also with Sankara, and he said, you know, we are exactly in the same situation. We have a reserve arrangement with the French Central Bank, which keeps our reserve money, and if we need something, we have to go back to the French Central Bank to give us our money, and it’s against the rules and all of that. So it’s the same system applied in, and they don’t call them anymore, they call them French territories, they don’t call them colonies anymore.

And so it’s in a pretty similar situation. What I understand, what they are trying to do, they already have their own currency. That’s a little bit of what we talked about. You know, you can’t do that from one day to another. You have to start with your own parallel currency, as other countries have done. And within those parameters of your own currency, you establish a system, the currency has to be backed, of course. And the currency should be backed, first of all, by the economy, as China does.

You know, they have a very strong economy, that’s why they have a very strong currency, whereas the Western currencies, these so-called trading currencies like the US dollar and the Euro, they have absolutely no backing. They’re kind of invented by the banks. Every time a bank makes a credit to something, it adds money to the monetary system. And that’s why the world in general is flooded by the dollar. I think 60% of all the tradable currencies are U.S. Dollars. That’s why they can still dominate the world with it. And of course, that’s not the way to do it. There are reasons why the United States was able to do that.

That’s maybe a subject for another discussion that we could have. But certainly that’s not something to be copied, and that’s never what China wanted to do. But what the country that starts with the new currency has to make sure that the rest of the world has trust in this new currency and is willing to deal and to trade against this new currency, is that it has to have a backing. You know, people still are convinced that gold is the best backing.

I’m not so convinced that gold is the best packing, especially if we see how gold fluctuates and has become really a speculative almost a speculative commodity. I would rather go with another approach, which was also something, I think it came out of the Russian Putin’s advisor, I forgot what his name is, a very, very famous economist. To set up a system where, in addition to your own strong economy, you have a backing of a series of commodities, you know, of the most common commodities that you use and that you trade with.

Maybe 20, 25, depending on the country. I think in the case of Russia, they talked about maybe 20 or 22. That can vary, you know? And the commodities within themselves can also vary depending on their use of them. There’s flexibility. But these commodities, they should always be equivalent to the flow of currency that is of your own currency that is in circulation. Plus, your economy, of course, the currency is something that has to be equivalent to a certain extent to the strength of your economy. And that’s what the gold can be part of this set of these commodities, and silver and other precious metals can be part of these set of commodities.

But also grains and, you know, and other sorts of tradable commodities. This is what we discussed, and of course, Burkina Faso would have to do that, and they would be willing to do that, I’m pretty sure. I don’t know what Traore has in mind, but I’m sure he has good economic advisors to help with it. I read yesterday, I think yesterday or two days ago, I forgot exactly when it was, that he has protection from Vladimir Putin because he went to sea, he went to Moscow. And exactly, exactly.

Jeff: Yeah, yeah, he had Putin’s private jet to go to Moscow.

Peter: Exactly, exactly.

Jeff: It’s unbelievable.

Peter: So, Putin has made sure to make that public, that everybody knows that Traore is protected by I don’t know what kind of secret services he has given him, but I think this is terrific. This is great. It also gives them much more leeway to deal with the situation as he see fit. And I hope he can be in influence in these other countries and these are also CFA.

Jeff: Yeah. Oh, I think he already is. I think he’s inspiring. Senegal is getting involved now. The Central African Republic is getting involved.

Peter: Niger, I think.

Jeff: Yeah, Niger and Mali, and Burkina Faso have created the Sahelian Alliance of states, the AES in French. And they now have a military security agreement between the three countries to fight all the Western-backed and financed and managed, you know, terrorist groups that the West uses to attack its enemies. But for the CFA, France is not going to go down without a fight. I can’t remember which book it is I had. I’ll have to find the quotes.

There are two public quotes. One by liberal Francois Mitterrand, you know, back in the 80s, and won by conservative Jacques  President Chirac, two French presidents, and both of them said the same thing that France cannot be an economically powerful country without essentially exploiting, ripping off Africa. And they have to have Africa, you know, basically for cheap resources. And of course, they keep the CFA overvalued.

Peter: Exactly.

Jeff: So that it makes things cheap to buy from France to import, you know, into Africa, and it makes their exports more expensive. It is some real mafia.

Peter: Well, this is exactly what we try to do when, you know, in Washington, with my director at the time, as I said, a Frenchman who was totally aligned with this thought that we discussed? He was against his French domination. And wanted to devalue the CFA. And I helped them with it, at least a little bit. Of course, he had the power, and that was good. And I can tell you, we had these meetings with the French executive director of the World Bank. These were arguments, and the arguments and arguments, eventually, I think we succeeded with I forgot what it was, maybe 7%, which is, of course, nothing. But at least we were able to devalue the CFA by 7%, which helped a little bit.

Jeff: Yeah.

Peter: And of course, it needed, you know, the French executive director was the direct representative of the Banque de France in Paris. And he could only agree to what Paris would agree to eventually. But then, I guess, at that time, I did not have the impression that the IMF was as strong as it is today. But probably the IMF must have been going along with it. But the initiative came from my director, and I’m very much supported him with it as much as I could.

Jeff: Well, hats off to him. If you ever see him again, tell him thank you.

Peter: Will do. I’ve tried to get in touch with him lately, but he didn’t respond. You know, I have his email address, and I’ve written to him about 2 or 3 times within the last few, well, within let’s say, within the last year or so.

Peter: And unfortunately, he did not reply. I don’t know how he is, and I think he still is in Washington. I don’t think he went back to France. But I’m not totally sure. You know, it’s been a long time.

Jeff: Okay.

Peter: But he was certainly a good teacher for me, and he gave me a lot of good ideas, and let me do things that otherwise I would not have been able to do.

Jeff: What an incredible story. I have a good friend who met Thomas Sankara. That’s amazing. He’s quite a guy. Peter put me on to… They’re not very long, and I downloaded them. One is called Thomas Sankara, The Upright Man. It’s a 50-minute documentary on Thomas Sankara. And then there’s another one that I found called The Real Reason They Killed Thomas Sankara, and the layover is, his best friend killed him, then that would be Blaise Pascal. They were, I think they were schoolmates.

And so they were really good friends, and of course, Blaise Pascal sold his soul to the devil and had Sankara assassinated, and of course, all the progress that amazing progress that Sankara made in those short 3 years, you know, literacy, schools, clinics, hospitals, you know, housing, roads, you know, infrastructure, water. Everything else after, of course, Blaise Pascal came to power, he was just a whore for Paris.

Peter: It was just a puppet again.

Jeff: Yes, just to puppet and so all the money that Burkina Faso was making was going to Paris, you know, to keep France a great power. So well, Peter, this has been fascinating. Do you have any closing comments? This is really amazing.

Peter: Well, there’s also an excellent movie that I forgot exactly when it was made. Maybe 10 years ago, or something like that, about Thomas Sankara. It was circulating in the movie theaters in Geneva at the time, and I saw it. I forgot, maybe it’s just called Thomas Sankara, I could be that the movie is just called Sankara.

Jeff: So the upright man is not the one you’re talking about, because it’s only 20 minutes long.

Peter: No, it’s longer.

Jeff: It’s a full-length feature.

Peter: It’s a feature movie of at least an hour, maybe 80 minutes or 90 minutes.

Jeff: Well, I’ll try to find it and upload.

Peter: I’ll look it up and send you the link and mention it.

Jeff: Send me the link, and I’ll download it. I download everything because one of these days, all this stuff’s going to disappear off the internet. Well, Peter, you told me you’re gonna come visit us at the end of September. So we are expecting you to come visit us here in Puli, Taiwan Province. We’d love to have you.

Peter: Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Jeff. I’m looking forward to it, really.

Jeff: So we hope that you can make it, and don’t just stay 2 or 3 days, stay for a week, and we can show you around the place. Taiwan is really beautiful. The tallest mountain is Jade Mountain. And so 4,000 meters, you know, that’s kind of like the Swiss Alps, you know, at 4,000 meters.

Peter: 4,000 meters, wow.

Jeff: Yeah, yeah, in Taiwan, yeah. Yeah, we’re just about a 2-hour drive to the highest pass in Taiwan, and that’s 3,300 meters that you can drive up to 3,300 meters. And then off in the distance, you can see Jade Mountain Peak. And it’s really a beautiful, beautiful place. So come and stay for a few days, you’ll have your own private floor with your own private bathroom, and you will be treated like a Pasha. In fact, we’ll call you Pasha Peter. All right?

Peter: Thanks, Jeff. I’m looking forward to it, really, very much so.

Jeff: This is Jeff J. Brown, Radio Sinoland, with my good friend and colleague. China Writers Group Maven, expert, incredible, and lifetime experience, met Thomas Sankara and worked with him, Peter Koenig, in Geneva. Thank you.

Peter: Thank you, Jeff. Thanks a lot.

Resources

Documentary: Thomas Sankara, the Upright Man

Documentary: The Real Reason They Killed Thomas Sankara

Books

Thomas Sankara Speaks The Burkina Faso Revolution 1983-1987

Women‘s Liberation and the African Freedom Struggle — Thomas Sankara — Second edition, 2007

Les DISCOURS de Thomas Sankara

L’émancipation des femmes et la lutte de libération de — Thomas Sankara, 2001

Video: Traoré is doing what Gaddafi died for. Gold dinar revival challenging Western dominance

Divers

https://www.marxists.org/archive/sankara/index.htmRs

https://www.documentarytube.com/best-of/the-5-best-documentaries-about-thomas-sankara/

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China Rising: Capitalist Roads, Socialist Destinations

https://www.amazon.com/China-Rising-Capitalist-Socialist-Destinations/dp/0996487042

BIG Red Book on China: Chinese History, Culture and Revolution

https://www.amazon.com/BIG-Red-Book-China/dp/1673322719/

Author page:

https://www.amazon.com/Mr.-Jeff-J.-Brown/e/B00TX0TDDI

Praise for The China Trilogy:

https://radiosinoland.com/2018/06/30/praise-for-the-china-trilogy-the-votes-are-in-it-r-o-c-k-s-what-are-you-waiting-for/

Why and How China works: With a Mirror to Our Own History

44 Days Backpacking in China: The Middle Kingdom in the 21st Century, with the United States, Europe and the Fate of the World in Its Looking Glass

China Rising: Capitalist Roads, Socialist Destinations

 

 

 

 

 

 

BIG Red Book on China: Chinese History, Culture and Revolution

Read it in your language • Lealo en su idioma • Lisez-le dans votre langue • Lies es in deniner Sprache • Прочитайте это на вашем языке • 用你的语言阅读

Wechat group: search the phone number +8619806711824 or my ID, Mr_Professor_Brown, friend request and ask Jeff to join the China Rising Radio Sinoland Wechat group. He will add you as a member, so you can join in the ongoing discussion.